There is an opinion that the censorship at Newsvine is done to create an unfair and hostile environment for creative artists who try to use the service because they would upstage some of the less talented individuals who use the system for their political activism and do not want to lose the spotlight to innovative and entertaining participants and their activities.
I am not sure how I feel about this theory and if it were true, it could be altered by some tweeks to the Meta-Policy at Newsvine.
My personal problems at the service were the result of getting into too many battles at the service over my politics. It is fair to say that my opinions at times were presented in a way that was overly aggressive and that I should not be that ruthless to these people. That is an opinion that I will listen to and assess my own actions, but that should not disallow me from holding those views and arguing with as much passion as I can fit within this particular forum's rules of behavior.
Right now I am working on a concept at Newsvine where I will be Tom, the proprietor of a clip-joint and a laundromat.
Thursday, January 22, 2009
Tuesday, January 20, 2009
Upton Sinclair Is One Of My Favorite Authors
This is what Upton Sinclair said about 'Radicals and the Press' in his book "The Brass Check."
But it is for the poor devil become class-conscious, and protesting against injustice to his class, that our Journalism reserves its deadliest venom. It is when the Radical steps upon the scene that the hunting-pack joins in full cry. Then every prejudice, every hatred in the whole journalistic psychology becomes focused as by a burning-glass upon one centre. The hatred of the staff, men who have sold their honor, and take bold truth-telling for a personal insult; the hatred of the owner, whose life-time gains are threatened; the hatred of the advertiser who who betrays the state to it - all these various various hatreds mass themselves, they form what the foot-ball player knows as a "V," they "rush" this enemy and bowl him over and traple him under their feet.
Saturday, January 17, 2009
Don't Sue Brian For Me Enron
A disclaimer before I begin: I have no legal interest in the matter of any possible copyright infringement taking place between the person who uses the object in this article that I am comparing to the Enron Logo. I am a third party who is merely making a point about an accusation that was made against me on the Newsvine site by a user who is partly to blame for my being suspended over violations of the newsvine Meta-policy.
I noticed that Brian's logo that he uses everywhere is a parody of the fallen corporate entity that was a scandal and a joke some years back. I raised this fact with Brian at the time that he was fighting with me over the subject of art, poetry, and politics on my articles on Newsvine. I posted a photograph as an illustration and he attempted to charge me with misuse of images on the page. He also went on to state that my images were posted in violation of the internet use rules and that I just used anything I wanted until I was caught. He said I did not understand the copyright laws and was misusing other people's copyrighted materials.
I attempted to teach him some copyright law by pointing out that a copy of someone's image did not need to be exact to prove that there had been an infringement. He denied that his image had anything to do with the Enron symbol for a variety of reasons and said that my suggestion just proved how ignorant I was about copyright issues.
According to him, this entry would be a violation of the copyright law because I am 'stealing his logo' for my article. The other photo is the property of Associated Press and I took it from a newspaper and it is subject to the rules of a misused item on the internet. Brian Ford's logo is being used in a news article about Brian and his logo and it is therefore news and falls under a different standard of use.
On Newsvine the laws that govern journalism do not apply to the people who post, but the one's who enforce the rules act as though they do, and that they are the enforcers.
Newsvine could sorely use someone with a degree in journalism somewhere in the vicinity to answer some of these legal questions for Brian and the gang.
The Scene Where My Suspension Took Place At Newsvine
This is the scene of the suspension from Newsvine. I have collected some of the posts to show a bit more of how this thing developed. I think it can be read and understood as it is without too much further explanation.
I was involved in several disputes simultaneously as well as the normal activities of writing articles and commenting in places with people who got along with me. I was starting groups that also needed my attention.
I thought I was doing what I was supposed to at Newsvine by staying busy with projects that were constructive to the community. I was encouraging people to use the features of Newsvine that allowed new conversations to start and also was trying to keep my articles topical so they would attract an audience.
My activities were beginning to get me more attention and my articles were being placed on the front page with some regularity at this time. Brian Ford came onto a couple of my articles to put down my writing and to tell me to keep my tags in order.
This produced an argument with me about the issue of miscategorization that was picked up by Viki Gonia as well and she began to appear on some of my other articles to comment at times and to call me out on any possible code of honor violations she might find while she was chatting with me.
A partial transcript of the article where I was suspended. >
Newsvine user one >
Poor Rendered, no one will step into his quagmire.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rendered tugged at him mommys' skirt.
"Pick me up! Pay attention to me!"
"Now, little Rendered, your dad, Revealed, needs attention right now. Why don't you go out and play with the other boys?" his harried mom replied.
"They won't let me be the captain of the team, they make fun of me because I can't do the things they do!" the little boy said.
"I'm sure when they get to know you they will be nicer."
...unfortunately, getting to know him had the opposite effect.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
renderedtruth >
At the risk of appearing self-absorbed again, may I give the truth of this tale a try? I will take the initiative rather than await a reply.
After attending various schools in the Mid-West, at the point I entered highschool, I was beginning to gain some acceptance from my new group of peers and was recruited for the football team. My mother refused to sign the permission to allow me to play because she was afraid that I could be injured. I agreed to drop the issue after trying to get her to change her mind.
I wanted to play because I enjoyed the game and was sure that I could be good at it. I liked to wrestle and had an occasional fist-fight when the situation called for it, but I did not really mind not being able to play because I enjoyed myself in other areas. I liked to read and was in love with several girls and my English Teacher.
I stayed pretty busy in highschool until the time I was thrown out. It was after I had stood a kid on his head and threatened to 'use him for a pogo-stick.' I was suspended along with the other fighter, and later, after my English teacher, of whom I spoke, talked me into coming back to school after dropping out. I was placed on 'academemic probation' and failed to meet the standard after a short return and was thrown out after a controversial conferrance with the staff of the high school and the administration.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Viki Gonia in a late post after my suspension and also after the announcement that I was suspended which occurred at a lower point on the page. This anouncement is referring to my statement to her in a private email that I forwarded to other people on my mailing list.
The statement that I made to her was not a threat of any particular legal action. I said that I was intending to ‘investigate’ what my legal options were in this matter.
Her comment >
renderedtruth might be on ignore for some of you, but he's also been suspended.
Which has given him time to threaten me, via email, with legal action.
How fun. And ridiculous. Apparently, it's my fault that he's been suspended, and it has absolutely nothing to do with his own behavior, nor with what Tyler has warned him.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Original thread continues >
renderedtruth >
How might one determine consent of shared information between communicants on a vine?
What does that mean?
I am attempting to get an interpretation of the Coh from Zoilius. The Coh has been quite elusive to me and I would not like to make an unintentional violation.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Newsvine user 2 >
They stamp their little feet, shake their little fist'ies at me in frustration, then kick and scream and cry about how unreasonable I am being because of their own inability to logical give support for their rationalizations beyond hearsay, and I refuse to be convinced by superstitiousness or
Ad hominem abusive, Ad hominem circumstantial. Ad hominem tu quoque, the use of the, non sequitur, and ever so popular, argumentum ad populum, ad nausia.
So, they begin calling me an intellectual elitist, for having the nerve to have seen evidence with my own eyes, or have read a book, or study, and the gall for comprehending them, together with my arrogance to have retained what what I have learned and ability to apply it to real world situations in new and creative ways or to be articulate enough to be able to explain it in a coherent manor. And damn me to hell if I ever learn from the mistakes made in the past and mention that dirty word "History" from all those dead people who don't matter in todays modern world.
So, finding no other recourse to maintain their safe and incredulous existence, and to save their brains from exploding, from me having to have asked them to actual "Think" for themselves, for perhaps the first time in their little regimented and controlled box slit of life they visualize the world through , they tell me I am being put on their ignore list, being branded a heretic for saying the world is not flat, or they just don't reply, and I never hear from them again.
________________________________________________________________________
Newsvine user 2 >
The last Time I checked, the COH was written in this secret code used by intelectuals called 'English".
If you have any trouble with this, ask the NV staff.
I do not do 'interpretations!"
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
renderedtruth >
Have you ever turned in work that resembled what you just wrote to a University English department for a grade? Because I would like to know what the grades were and who gave them to you. That kind of verbal mishmash would get you nowhere in the colleges I have been to. I assume you can tone this character down and talk normally when you choose, correct?
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
renderedtruth >
the COH was written in this secret code used by intellectuals called 'English".
I don't think I have done anything that deserves such a contemptuous response.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
quote of Newsvine user 2 >
Ad hominem abusive, Ad hominem circumstantial. Ad hominem tu quoque, the use of the, non sequitur, and ever so popular, argumentum ad populum, ad nausia.
renderedtruth >
Is this really all the proof you need of your own intelligence? That you can roll out a long list of fallacy titles and can possibly recite the definitions of them?
I have written essays about a lot of them. I got an A in critical thinking at my last college and it was a good experience for me. I learned things in that class from taking in the material and using it. Maybe you could link me to some of your work on the subject of critical thinking since you are apparently an expert by this statement.?
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Newsvine user 1 >
quote renderedtruth: I got an A in critical thinking at my last college
Orel Roberts U?
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
renderedtruth >
I got an A in critical thinking at my last college
Orel Roberts U?
A Community College in Berkeley California - heard of them? Community Colleges.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Newsvine user 1 >
I certainly have heard of them, and I am even a product of our local community college. Night school for 3 years while I worked a full time job and raised my son by myself.
You'll hear people speak in disparaging tones of community colleges, but I learned a great deal there and so have a lot of other people.
footnote: This user becomes very somber and sensible when he tells of his strong feelings of support for community colleges. He should have this much of a respectfull demeanor more often when he speaks with me.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Newsvine user 2 >
Besides that glossolalia of the first post of yours to me, and the "Plying Dumb" ploy with the COH trying to use it as a trap. Sidetracking with personal ridicule, trying to establish credibility by Invoke authority, by associating for yourself with the name Berkeley. your attempts to Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad me and others? What are you doing here? You are avoiding the issue with disinformation tactics. You attempt to draw us into an emotional response without discussion of the issues. If you have something useful to contribute which defeats any argument, or statement made here, let's here it -- preferably coherently and without snide innuendo and unwarranted personal attacks, if you can manage to avoid sinking so low. Your useless rhetoric serves no purpose here if that is all you can manage.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
renderedtruth >
I think you both need to revisit 'the little atheist boy,' and get yourselves in check.
note: These users had recently been on a page that I posted that was a Christmas Carol for atheists that I wrote in response to an article someone else wrote suggesting that atheists should have a winter festival of their own. I wrote a parody of the “Little Drummer Boy” which attracted these two users who argue for atheism on Newsvine. They spent several days commenting and User 2 began a dialogue with another person which went on for several days as well. It was a nice discussion of religion between an atheist and a person proposing a Christian view. I never joined in that discussion and at one point decided that they had taken up enough of my column with this personal conversation that I was tired of hosting. I told them both to vacate my column and was ignored by them for awhile and the Christian began to talk to me eventually. User 2 ignored me (possibly because he was using my column to talk to someone with the ignore feature turned on me). Under the Newsvine code of honor I was entitled to delete their comments after telling them to get going or determining that they had gone off topic. I chose to attempt to get them to utilize a feature of Newsvine that would allow them to move off of the front page of my article and into a side room area to continue their talk. This eventually led to the decision to have the Christian leave my page and write his own article to continue the talk and to link back to my page to get his conversationalists over to himself.
________________________________________________________________________
renderedtruth >
Are you going to make all your offensive remarks to me on the article that includes my name in the subject? I ought to ask for a favor from Mic. He should have my name in his tag line of the article because I am the subject of that page. I contributed much more to the dialogue than the author who wrote his meta article to protest his deletion.
This fits perfectly with the charge of my 'self-absorption' that was mentioned earlier by Viki Babbles Gonia.
note: There was another article posted at this time that concerned a rather strange post by a black author who proposed that whites might be less served than minorities in our society since they do not have the kind of extra supports that minorities do through their endowments and civil rights watch groups and other incentives that are used to enhance the chances of minority success. I knew this was a dangerous and volatile place for me to post. I am white and have written about minority issues on Newsvine in the past and thought that this would be an interesting page to attempt to say something about these matters. I expected the page to be deleted at any moment over the strange content but it was allowed to go on and the moderator who is black stopped on the page to make a comment or two.
At one time there were two deletions - mine and another one. They were over a comment of mine and they were the seeds of an incendiary argument between me and this other user. We were both white and the remark was something kind of snotty said to me and I returned with some rhetoric to answer. Both comments were deleted. The other guy wrote a long and windy article about his deletion and said that my comment was worse than his and was allowed to remain.
The article was deleted later by its author and there was a comment by myself on the page requesting to interview the author and a little contract that I suggested we follow in setting up the interview.
________________________________________________________________________
Block quote from user 2 >
Sidetracking with personal ridicule, trying to establish credibility by Invoke authority, by associating for yourself with the name Berkeley. your attempts to Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad me and others? What are you doing here? You are avoiding the issue with disinformation tactics. You attempt to draw us into an emotional response without discussion of the issues.
*Clears Throat* *Looks out from lectern* *Trys Not to Look Awkward While Drinking Bottled Water*
The conversation that began over the proper and fair use of the Newsvine service's rather singularly unique 'Ignore User' category of interface optimization, is an issue of technological social flow in the public sector. It is one that we will discuss here at length.
At the end of my notes we may have a period of Q&A where the discussion may broaden to the social consequences of blogging in general, but at this time I will keep my comments limited to the proposal to place 'each and every user flagged for abuse on permanent ignore' as was the proposal of Newsvine users in the previous days of December 2008.
So what then are the social consequences of taking this course of action? Is there anything to be gained from this?
The Newsvine is a 'free social network of affiliated news columns that operates under the authority of a users agreement known as the Coh or alternatively its full name - The Code of Honor. The "Code of Honor" was developed over time as the service grew by a democratic governance and trial and error politicing. It is an effort to bring order from chaos as in any governing law over conduct of a diverse population must be. As a tool towards this end, it allows for certain agreed on principals to be maintained. The highest aim is a civilized discourse among all users regardless of politcal prefference. A very high goal indeed and utopian at its basic root.
Is then the aim of Newsvine to have users placed on ignore over seemingly short periods of attempted social intercourse over this service? Would it not then be better to wait some period before determining that a user will not be able to assimilate to the difficult and somewhat undemonstrable goals of the Newsvine Coh in its attempt to facilitate free expression in an open forum.
Ok, I think we can begin the Questions now.
note: Newsviners occassionally put on little scenes where they perform as characters. I thought this one would be interesting. I was trying to sound like a guest professor giving a lecture on Newsvine.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Viki - blank
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Lauhaul - Well-said, Viki. Spot on!
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Follower - blank
>Yes, it's a secret code.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Viki Babbles Brevity....pointedly and properly.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Simple, but profound.
I think it would be better as an article titled "Things I would like to say to some people."
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Right like you know how to decipher this?
OK a few questions..
And
So,
Well?
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
renderedtruth - deleted
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Tyler Adams (the paid Newsvine moderator)
Hey renderedtruth, remember when you said this?
This is all kind of irrelevant and inconsequential, one may even say self-indulgvent, but I thought I might jump in here.
This is a pretty good description of your involvement in Newsvine up to this point. Self-indulgent, irrelevant, and consequential only in that people have begun emailing me asking if there's any way to get rid of you.
I told you months ago to cut this out.
Here's the CoH - if you don't understand it, take all the time you spend derailing and emailing users who have you on ignore to go through my post history and see how it's being enforced.
Here's the Meta Policy - it's pretty darn straightforward.
You've got time - you're suspended for a month for embodying the violation of #5 in the CoH.
Next time you do what you've been doing - suggesting Viners should write articles about you, self-admitted attention-hoeing, getting your Blago on - you're gone. No appeals, no nothing.
a user will not be able to assimilate to the difficult and somewhat undemonstrable goals of the Newsvine Coh in its attempt to facilitate free expression in an open forum.
My first rule of tutoring/teaching is to never tell someone trying to learn that [subject/document/whatever] 'isn't hard'.
So I'll say this: If you can't figure out the Code of Honor, after being an active poster here for nigh six months, maybe Newsvine isn't for you.
I would like you to figure out how to use this site properly, but there are probably a thousand new users who might not understand the CoH yet, but they aren't wreaking egocentric havoc on every discussion they come across.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Then the post begins to be a mocking celebration of what happened to me.
I was involved in several disputes simultaneously as well as the normal activities of writing articles and commenting in places with people who got along with me. I was starting groups that also needed my attention.
I thought I was doing what I was supposed to at Newsvine by staying busy with projects that were constructive to the community. I was encouraging people to use the features of Newsvine that allowed new conversations to start and also was trying to keep my articles topical so they would attract an audience.
My activities were beginning to get me more attention and my articles were being placed on the front page with some regularity at this time. Brian Ford came onto a couple of my articles to put down my writing and to tell me to keep my tags in order.
This produced an argument with me about the issue of miscategorization that was picked up by Viki Gonia as well and she began to appear on some of my other articles to comment at times and to call me out on any possible code of honor violations she might find while she was chatting with me.
A partial transcript of the article where I was suspended. >
Newsvine user one >
Poor Rendered, no one will step into his quagmire.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rendered tugged at him mommys' skirt.
"Pick me up! Pay attention to me!"
"Now, little Rendered, your dad, Revealed, needs attention right now. Why don't you go out and play with the other boys?" his harried mom replied.
"They won't let me be the captain of the team, they make fun of me because I can't do the things they do!" the little boy said.
"I'm sure when they get to know you they will be nicer."
...unfortunately, getting to know him had the opposite effect.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
renderedtruth >
At the risk of appearing self-absorbed again, may I give the truth of this tale a try? I will take the initiative rather than await a reply.
After attending various schools in the Mid-West, at the point I entered highschool, I was beginning to gain some acceptance from my new group of peers and was recruited for the football team. My mother refused to sign the permission to allow me to play because she was afraid that I could be injured. I agreed to drop the issue after trying to get her to change her mind.
I wanted to play because I enjoyed the game and was sure that I could be good at it. I liked to wrestle and had an occasional fist-fight when the situation called for it, but I did not really mind not being able to play because I enjoyed myself in other areas. I liked to read and was in love with several girls and my English Teacher.
I stayed pretty busy in highschool until the time I was thrown out. It was after I had stood a kid on his head and threatened to 'use him for a pogo-stick.' I was suspended along with the other fighter, and later, after my English teacher, of whom I spoke, talked me into coming back to school after dropping out. I was placed on 'academemic probation' and failed to meet the standard after a short return and was thrown out after a controversial conferrance with the staff of the high school and the administration.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Viki Gonia in a late post after my suspension and also after the announcement that I was suspended which occurred at a lower point on the page. This anouncement is referring to my statement to her in a private email that I forwarded to other people on my mailing list.
The statement that I made to her was not a threat of any particular legal action. I said that I was intending to ‘investigate’ what my legal options were in this matter.
Her comment >
renderedtruth might be on ignore for some of you, but he's also been suspended.
Which has given him time to threaten me, via email, with legal action.
How fun. And ridiculous. Apparently, it's my fault that he's been suspended, and it has absolutely nothing to do with his own behavior, nor with what Tyler has warned him.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Original thread continues >
renderedtruth >
How might one determine consent of shared information between communicants on a vine?
What does that mean?
I am attempting to get an interpretation of the Coh from Zoilius. The Coh has been quite elusive to me and I would not like to make an unintentional violation.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Newsvine user 2 >
They stamp their little feet, shake their little fist'ies at me in frustration, then kick and scream and cry about how unreasonable I am being because of their own inability to logical give support for their rationalizations beyond hearsay, and I refuse to be convinced by superstitiousness or
Ad hominem abusive, Ad hominem circumstantial. Ad hominem tu quoque, the use of the, non sequitur, and ever so popular, argumentum ad populum, ad nausia.
So, they begin calling me an intellectual elitist, for having the nerve to have seen evidence with my own eyes, or have read a book, or study, and the gall for comprehending them, together with my arrogance to have retained what what I have learned and ability to apply it to real world situations in new and creative ways or to be articulate enough to be able to explain it in a coherent manor. And damn me to hell if I ever learn from the mistakes made in the past and mention that dirty word "History" from all those dead people who don't matter in todays modern world.
So, finding no other recourse to maintain their safe and incredulous existence, and to save their brains from exploding, from me having to have asked them to actual "Think" for themselves, for perhaps the first time in their little regimented and controlled box slit of life they visualize the world through , they tell me I am being put on their ignore list, being branded a heretic for saying the world is not flat, or they just don't reply, and I never hear from them again.
________________________________________________________________________
Newsvine user 2 >
The last Time I checked, the COH was written in this secret code used by intelectuals called 'English".
If you have any trouble with this, ask the NV staff.
I do not do 'interpretations!"
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
renderedtruth >
Have you ever turned in work that resembled what you just wrote to a University English department for a grade? Because I would like to know what the grades were and who gave them to you. That kind of verbal mishmash would get you nowhere in the colleges I have been to. I assume you can tone this character down and talk normally when you choose, correct?
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
renderedtruth >
the COH was written in this secret code used by intellectuals called 'English".
I don't think I have done anything that deserves such a contemptuous response.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
quote of Newsvine user 2 >
Ad hominem abusive, Ad hominem circumstantial. Ad hominem tu quoque, the use of the, non sequitur, and ever so popular, argumentum ad populum, ad nausia.
renderedtruth >
Is this really all the proof you need of your own intelligence? That you can roll out a long list of fallacy titles and can possibly recite the definitions of them?
I have written essays about a lot of them. I got an A in critical thinking at my last college and it was a good experience for me. I learned things in that class from taking in the material and using it. Maybe you could link me to some of your work on the subject of critical thinking since you are apparently an expert by this statement.?
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Newsvine user 1 >
quote renderedtruth: I got an A in critical thinking at my last college
Orel Roberts U?
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
renderedtruth >
I got an A in critical thinking at my last college
Orel Roberts U?
A Community College in Berkeley California - heard of them? Community Colleges.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Newsvine user 1 >
I certainly have heard of them, and I am even a product of our local community college. Night school for 3 years while I worked a full time job and raised my son by myself.
You'll hear people speak in disparaging tones of community colleges, but I learned a great deal there and so have a lot of other people.
footnote: This user becomes very somber and sensible when he tells of his strong feelings of support for community colleges. He should have this much of a respectfull demeanor more often when he speaks with me.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Newsvine user 2 >
Besides that glossolalia of the first post of yours to me, and the "Plying Dumb" ploy with the COH trying to use it as a trap. Sidetracking with personal ridicule, trying to establish credibility by Invoke authority, by associating for yourself with the name Berkeley. your attempts to Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad me and others? What are you doing here? You are avoiding the issue with disinformation tactics. You attempt to draw us into an emotional response without discussion of the issues. If you have something useful to contribute which defeats any argument, or statement made here, let's here it -- preferably coherently and without snide innuendo and unwarranted personal attacks, if you can manage to avoid sinking so low. Your useless rhetoric serves no purpose here if that is all you can manage.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
renderedtruth >
I think you both need to revisit 'the little atheist boy,' and get yourselves in check.
note: These users had recently been on a page that I posted that was a Christmas Carol for atheists that I wrote in response to an article someone else wrote suggesting that atheists should have a winter festival of their own. I wrote a parody of the “Little Drummer Boy” which attracted these two users who argue for atheism on Newsvine. They spent several days commenting and User 2 began a dialogue with another person which went on for several days as well. It was a nice discussion of religion between an atheist and a person proposing a Christian view. I never joined in that discussion and at one point decided that they had taken up enough of my column with this personal conversation that I was tired of hosting. I told them both to vacate my column and was ignored by them for awhile and the Christian began to talk to me eventually. User 2 ignored me (possibly because he was using my column to talk to someone with the ignore feature turned on me). Under the Newsvine code of honor I was entitled to delete their comments after telling them to get going or determining that they had gone off topic. I chose to attempt to get them to utilize a feature of Newsvine that would allow them to move off of the front page of my article and into a side room area to continue their talk. This eventually led to the decision to have the Christian leave my page and write his own article to continue the talk and to link back to my page to get his conversationalists over to himself.
________________________________________________________________________
renderedtruth >
Are you going to make all your offensive remarks to me on the article that includes my name in the subject? I ought to ask for a favor from Mic. He should have my name in his tag line of the article because I am the subject of that page. I contributed much more to the dialogue than the author who wrote his meta article to protest his deletion.
This fits perfectly with the charge of my 'self-absorption' that was mentioned earlier by Viki Babbles Gonia.
note: There was another article posted at this time that concerned a rather strange post by a black author who proposed that whites might be less served than minorities in our society since they do not have the kind of extra supports that minorities do through their endowments and civil rights watch groups and other incentives that are used to enhance the chances of minority success. I knew this was a dangerous and volatile place for me to post. I am white and have written about minority issues on Newsvine in the past and thought that this would be an interesting page to attempt to say something about these matters. I expected the page to be deleted at any moment over the strange content but it was allowed to go on and the moderator who is black stopped on the page to make a comment or two.
At one time there were two deletions - mine and another one. They were over a comment of mine and they were the seeds of an incendiary argument between me and this other user. We were both white and the remark was something kind of snotty said to me and I returned with some rhetoric to answer. Both comments were deleted. The other guy wrote a long and windy article about his deletion and said that my comment was worse than his and was allowed to remain.
The article was deleted later by its author and there was a comment by myself on the page requesting to interview the author and a little contract that I suggested we follow in setting up the interview.
________________________________________________________________________
Block quote from user 2 >
Sidetracking with personal ridicule, trying to establish credibility by Invoke authority, by associating for yourself with the name Berkeley. your attempts to Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad me and others? What are you doing here? You are avoiding the issue with disinformation tactics. You attempt to draw us into an emotional response without discussion of the issues.
*Clears Throat* *Looks out from lectern* *Trys Not to Look Awkward While Drinking Bottled Water*
The conversation that began over the proper and fair use of the Newsvine service's rather singularly unique 'Ignore User' category of interface optimization, is an issue of technological social flow in the public sector. It is one that we will discuss here at length.
At the end of my notes we may have a period of Q&A where the discussion may broaden to the social consequences of blogging in general, but at this time I will keep my comments limited to the proposal to place 'each and every user flagged for abuse on permanent ignore' as was the proposal of Newsvine users in the previous days of December 2008.
So what then are the social consequences of taking this course of action? Is there anything to be gained from this?
The Newsvine is a 'free social network of affiliated news columns that operates under the authority of a users agreement known as the Coh or alternatively its full name - The Code of Honor. The "Code of Honor" was developed over time as the service grew by a democratic governance and trial and error politicing. It is an effort to bring order from chaos as in any governing law over conduct of a diverse population must be. As a tool towards this end, it allows for certain agreed on principals to be maintained. The highest aim is a civilized discourse among all users regardless of politcal prefference. A very high goal indeed and utopian at its basic root.
Is then the aim of Newsvine to have users placed on ignore over seemingly short periods of attempted social intercourse over this service? Would it not then be better to wait some period before determining that a user will not be able to assimilate to the difficult and somewhat undemonstrable goals of the Newsvine Coh in its attempt to facilitate free expression in an open forum.
Ok, I think we can begin the Questions now.
note: Newsviners occassionally put on little scenes where they perform as characters. I thought this one would be interesting. I was trying to sound like a guest professor giving a lecture on Newsvine.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Viki - blank
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Lauhaul - Well-said, Viki. Spot on!
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Follower - blank
>Yes, it's a secret code.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Viki Babbles Brevity....pointedly and properly.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Simple, but profound.
I think it would be better as an article titled "Things I would like to say to some people."
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Right like you know how to decipher this?
OK a few questions..
And
So,
Well?
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
renderedtruth - deleted
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Tyler Adams (the paid Newsvine moderator)
Hey renderedtruth, remember when you said this?
This is all kind of irrelevant and inconsequential, one may even say self-indulgvent, but I thought I might jump in here.
This is a pretty good description of your involvement in Newsvine up to this point. Self-indulgent, irrelevant, and consequential only in that people have begun emailing me asking if there's any way to get rid of you.
I told you months ago to cut this out.
Here's the CoH - if you don't understand it, take all the time you spend derailing and emailing users who have you on ignore to go through my post history and see how it's being enforced.
Here's the Meta Policy - it's pretty darn straightforward.
You've got time - you're suspended for a month for embodying the violation of #5 in the CoH.
Next time you do what you've been doing - suggesting Viners should write articles about you, self-admitted attention-hoeing, getting your Blago on - you're gone. No appeals, no nothing.
a user will not be able to assimilate to the difficult and somewhat undemonstrable goals of the Newsvine Coh in its attempt to facilitate free expression in an open forum.
My first rule of tutoring/teaching is to never tell someone trying to learn that [subject/document/whatever] 'isn't hard'.
So I'll say this: If you can't figure out the Code of Honor, after being an active poster here for nigh six months, maybe Newsvine isn't for you.
I would like you to figure out how to use this site properly, but there are probably a thousand new users who might not understand the CoH yet, but they aren't wreaking egocentric havoc on every discussion they come across.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Then the post begins to be a mocking celebration of what happened to me.
Thursday, January 15, 2009
A Malicious User At Newsvine
The Pied Piper struck the Newsvine after having several of his articles removed as spam. He had mentioned his past deeds and suggested that he was in need of a new opportunity and the articles were quickly removed. The furious piper placed his Skype settings towards the heart of the Newsvine community and blew mercilessly until a merry band of Newsvine elite was assembled and dancing to his tune.
It was a pitiful sight to see all of those humans being lulled into the crag where they all disappeared.
Afterwards the Newsvine was barren except for the few strays that were not affected by the Piping of the vengeful spamming despoiler.
The vine slowly regained its footing as some new users entered the Greenhouse but lost were the old ways. There was no longer a stiff line to toe and the new users fought and floundered as they cavorted through the vine without moderation. Someone who remembered the ‘Code of Honor’ spent their days calling to all on any column he may find himself on “Please follow the code. The code will save us from our lameness. Only by the code may we understand ourselves.”
Soon he formed a system by which everyone could advance according to how many users they had eliminated for being unhelpful with the code enforcing. It was not long before the kingdom of Newsvine was brought back to its most efficient and joyous state of being.
It was a pitiful sight to see all of those humans being lulled into the crag where they all disappeared.
Afterwards the Newsvine was barren except for the few strays that were not affected by the Piping of the vengeful spamming despoiler.
The vine slowly regained its footing as some new users entered the Greenhouse but lost were the old ways. There was no longer a stiff line to toe and the new users fought and floundered as they cavorted through the vine without moderation. Someone who remembered the ‘Code of Honor’ spent their days calling to all on any column he may find himself on “Please follow the code. The code will save us from our lameness. Only by the code may we understand ourselves.”
Soon he formed a system by which everyone could advance according to how many users they had eliminated for being unhelpful with the code enforcing. It was not long before the kingdom of Newsvine was brought back to its most efficient and joyous state of being.
Tuesday, January 13, 2009
The Poison Gnarls Of The Petrified Newsvine
I have recently begun using computers to communicate in the way that others have before me. I was late coming to this posting and blogging due to my own lack of interest and equipment. I was satisfied doing my writing for an audience of one on notebook paper with the occassional piece becoming a classroom affair - sometimes copied and discussed with other student writings - possibly ones even processed through these social bookmarking sites that I am now using myself. It is all just writing to me, but the social aspects of internet posting has proven troublesome for me, and I refuse to take the blame.
I have been aware of the raucousness of the internet even without participating through information from other media. I can appreciate the foolery that goes on, and even laugh at some of the crass humor, but my problem is not closely tied to these facets, despite the common placement of my problem and the rowdies who have so roiled the nerves and were the motivation to create the screens that are my problem.
For the past several months I have been involved at the MSNBC owned social bookmarking site, Newsvine.com. My time there has been almost entirely consumed with personal battles with other users and a continuing struggle with the managing moderators to keep my account from being deleted over complaints of abuse by the other users.
The site is a few years old and they have about 20 members who are the elite class of member who has achieved all the branches of the complete Newsvine logo, each 'vine' representing a conquest of a sort and being a badge of merit to rank the users and demonstrate their worth to one another. I presently have four of these, minus the one for good citizenship that usually arrives between the topmost for participation and the lower for seeding articles. The coveted final vine is the Random Act of Vineness or RAV which is only in the possession of a handfull of viners after all of these years.
Two of the most recent designates of this honor have been in a concerted dispute with myself over issues at the service which the moderator has viewed and chosen to give all consideration to these elite users for what I see as petty harrassment of another user. My complaints were met with a determined restatement of the original decision and an admonition to me to stop trying to blame anyone else for my problems with the moderator.
The situation with these users developed over several days and was begun in what appears to me to be a coordinated two-pronged attack. The moderator himself did things that could also be viewed as being part of the coordination that was taking place. After several days of being followed on my columns by these two RAV holders and having my new group that I founded threatened with an order to delete it for being a 'vigilante group' and then the moderator requesting to join my writing group after I sent him my description of the group that came under suspicion I was handed a very insulting notice from this moderator that I was suspended for a month and that the next problem that I had would probably result in having all of my 100 or so articles deleted and my groups of 20 members in one and all growing at a steady rate.
I am reluctant to ascribe motives here for these actions. I have opinions on that, but they are based on a prejudiced process of speculations. There are numerous actual statements made to me by these RAV holders which should provide ample proof of the pettiness of their complaints, but no one at Newsvine will listen to them from a user of little vine.
I have been aware of the raucousness of the internet even without participating through information from other media. I can appreciate the foolery that goes on, and even laugh at some of the crass humor, but my problem is not closely tied to these facets, despite the common placement of my problem and the rowdies who have so roiled the nerves and were the motivation to create the screens that are my problem.
For the past several months I have been involved at the MSNBC owned social bookmarking site, Newsvine.com. My time there has been almost entirely consumed with personal battles with other users and a continuing struggle with the managing moderators to keep my account from being deleted over complaints of abuse by the other users.
The site is a few years old and they have about 20 members who are the elite class of member who has achieved all the branches of the complete Newsvine logo, each 'vine' representing a conquest of a sort and being a badge of merit to rank the users and demonstrate their worth to one another. I presently have four of these, minus the one for good citizenship that usually arrives between the topmost for participation and the lower for seeding articles. The coveted final vine is the Random Act of Vineness or RAV which is only in the possession of a handfull of viners after all of these years.
Two of the most recent designates of this honor have been in a concerted dispute with myself over issues at the service which the moderator has viewed and chosen to give all consideration to these elite users for what I see as petty harrassment of another user. My complaints were met with a determined restatement of the original decision and an admonition to me to stop trying to blame anyone else for my problems with the moderator.
The situation with these users developed over several days and was begun in what appears to me to be a coordinated two-pronged attack. The moderator himself did things that could also be viewed as being part of the coordination that was taking place. After several days of being followed on my columns by these two RAV holders and having my new group that I founded threatened with an order to delete it for being a 'vigilante group' and then the moderator requesting to join my writing group after I sent him my description of the group that came under suspicion I was handed a very insulting notice from this moderator that I was suspended for a month and that the next problem that I had would probably result in having all of my 100 or so articles deleted and my groups of 20 members in one and all growing at a steady rate.
I am reluctant to ascribe motives here for these actions. I have opinions on that, but they are based on a prejudiced process of speculations. There are numerous actual statements made to me by these RAV holders which should provide ample proof of the pettiness of their complaints, but no one at Newsvine will listen to them from a user of little vine.
Sunday, January 11, 2009
The Almighty Code
Above all else, respect others. Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks. If you see something disrespectful or inappropriate, report it - rather than further inflaming the situation.
Adding a personal attack to an otherwise valuable comment or article serves only to render that contribution invalid in its entirety. Such content is subject to moderation.
Harassment and/or intimidation of others on Newsvine will not be tolerated, and patterns of such behavior may result in account cancelation. It would be very difficult, if not impossible to demonstrate to any of the moderators that anyone who is in the ranks of accepted Newsviners is not behaving according to this rule.
Newsvine's primary purpose is to provide a place for people to share and discuss topics relating to the news. Self-promotion, seeding links to your own site(s), and advertising are not allowed.
Posting full articles (using the "Write Article" feature) that also appear on your blog or web site is acceptable but seeding your own stuff is not.
Do not seed links to any sites you're affiliated with.
Posting links to drive traffic elsewhere for personal or financial gain is prohibited.
Headlines should be supported by the information presented in the article/seed, rather than used primarily as a means to draw attention. This rule has become a perverse prohibition against any headline that might be too effective and well written. Chosen news types and tags should be accurate and informative - not used to provoke or make a statement. The charge of 'tag abuse' is difficult to deny and is used as a harrasment. I was recently hounded over posting a poem under the politics tag since that made it available to the front page. It prompted a lengthy argument with the prominent Newsvine member and myself over the distinction of politics and where it could be used as a descriptive term for writing. I wrote essays on the subject that this person commented on to defend his own position which he called me a liar for attempting to write about.
The ability to categorize content, including clipping, is a privilege that carries with it a responsibility. Inappropriate or malicious use of news types, tags and clipping is prohibited.
Until additional News Types are supported, indicate the nature of your article/seed in the headline, when appropriate, following the form: "[Type]: [Headline]". This standard applies to the following non-exhaustive list of News Types: Satire, Rumor, Poetry, Comic/Illustration, Review
As the host of your column, you are expected to foster healthy, open discussions by setting a good example. Be responsible for the content you submit and exercise impartiality when deleting comments and reporting abuse.
Plagiarism and copyright infringement will not be tolerated. If you did not write something, do not portray it as your own (use the "blockquote" tag and cite your source by linking to the original content). If you do not have the right to republish the content in question, do not post it to Newsvine.
If a comment contains a personal attack or other gross Code of Honor or User Agreement violation, it may be deleted - regardless of the quality or nature of the rest of the comment. Users are welcome to re-post moderated comments without the offending portion(s).
Do not delete comments based on disagreement; remove only comments that grossly violate the Code of Honor or the User Agreement. There is a columnist on Newsvine with a high level of acceptance by the company referred to as someone who is very reliable in reporting abuse to the moderators who automatically deleted every comment I tried to make to his articles he seeded.
Comments that are grossly off-topic may be deleted. If the majority of the comment is on-topic, then the comment may not be deleted for being off-topic.
Acts that run contrary to the spirit and purpose of Newsvine, including attempts to circumvent the Code of Honor are not allowed.
A user's participation at Newsvine is judged as a whole. Recurring counterproductive behavior or negative contributions - even if not specifically addressed in the Code of Honor or the User Agreement - may still warrant removal of that person from the Newsvine Community.
So that's the Code!
Adding a personal attack to an otherwise valuable comment or article serves only to render that contribution invalid in its entirety. Such content is subject to moderation.
Harassment and/or intimidation of others on Newsvine will not be tolerated, and patterns of such behavior may result in account cancelation. It would be very difficult, if not impossible to demonstrate to any of the moderators that anyone who is in the ranks of accepted Newsviners is not behaving according to this rule.
Newsvine's primary purpose is to provide a place for people to share and discuss topics relating to the news. Self-promotion, seeding links to your own site(s), and advertising are not allowed.
Posting full articles (using the "Write Article" feature) that also appear on your blog or web site is acceptable but seeding your own stuff is not.
Do not seed links to any sites you're affiliated with.
Posting links to drive traffic elsewhere for personal or financial gain is prohibited.
Headlines should be supported by the information presented in the article/seed, rather than used primarily as a means to draw attention. This rule has become a perverse prohibition against any headline that might be too effective and well written. Chosen news types and tags should be accurate and informative - not used to provoke or make a statement. The charge of 'tag abuse' is difficult to deny and is used as a harrasment. I was recently hounded over posting a poem under the politics tag since that made it available to the front page. It prompted a lengthy argument with the prominent Newsvine member and myself over the distinction of politics and where it could be used as a descriptive term for writing. I wrote essays on the subject that this person commented on to defend his own position which he called me a liar for attempting to write about.
The ability to categorize content, including clipping, is a privilege that carries with it a responsibility. Inappropriate or malicious use of news types, tags and clipping is prohibited.
Until additional News Types are supported, indicate the nature of your article/seed in the headline, when appropriate, following the form: "[Type]: [Headline]". This standard applies to the following non-exhaustive list of News Types: Satire, Rumor, Poetry, Comic/Illustration, Review
As the host of your column, you are expected to foster healthy, open discussions by setting a good example. Be responsible for the content you submit and exercise impartiality when deleting comments and reporting abuse.
Plagiarism and copyright infringement will not be tolerated. If you did not write something, do not portray it as your own (use the "blockquote" tag and cite your source by linking to the original content). If you do not have the right to republish the content in question, do not post it to Newsvine.
If a comment contains a personal attack or other gross Code of Honor or User Agreement violation, it may be deleted - regardless of the quality or nature of the rest of the comment. Users are welcome to re-post moderated comments without the offending portion(s).
Do not delete comments based on disagreement; remove only comments that grossly violate the Code of Honor or the User Agreement. There is a columnist on Newsvine with a high level of acceptance by the company referred to as someone who is very reliable in reporting abuse to the moderators who automatically deleted every comment I tried to make to his articles he seeded.
Comments that are grossly off-topic may be deleted. If the majority of the comment is on-topic, then the comment may not be deleted for being off-topic.
Acts that run contrary to the spirit and purpose of Newsvine, including attempts to circumvent the Code of Honor are not allowed.
A user's participation at Newsvine is judged as a whole. Recurring counterproductive behavior or negative contributions - even if not specifically addressed in the Code of Honor or the User Agreement - may still warrant removal of that person from the Newsvine Community.
So that's the Code!
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